By Brandon T. McClure (@btmcclure @fakenerdpodcast)

The Defenders Saga could generate a list of 50 defining moments all on its own, but this series isn’t about that. However, it felt like a disservice to not mention them at all since they’re so beloved. So while you wait for entry 39, here’s an interlude about one of the most exciting television endeavors in Marvel’s history. To revisit previous posts, visit our site HERE. 

Enjoy the ride as we count down from 50 of the most defining moments and share your thoughts in the comments. 

• The Defenders Saga: A Loving Tribute •

INTERLUDE # 1

SHOWS: Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Iron Fist, Luke Cage, The Defenders, The Punisher

Show Runners: Steven S. DeKnight, Doug Petrie, Marco Ramirez, Erik Oleson, Melissa Rosenberg, Scott Reynolds, Cheo Hodari Coker, Scott Buck, M. Raven Metzner & Steve Lightfoot

Disney+ wasn’t Marvel’s first attempt to bring their sprawling cinematic universe to the small screen. In 2013, Marvel Television announced that they had made a deal with Netflix to produce new shows set in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. The plan was simple; mirror what Marvel Studios had done to build up to The Avengers, only this time with four, thirteen-episode seasons that would attempt to build the same momentum as the films but for a new team of heroes known as the Defenders. For the most part, it worked.

Fans of the franchise had been hoping that Marvel would tackle more mature subject matter for a while. So when it was announced that four shows would premier on Netflix and build up to a mini-series called The Defenders, the fans couldn’t wait. These shows were Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Iron Fist, and Luke Cage. These characters were strategically picked to be ones that Feige and company over at Marvel Studios didn’t have current plans to use and wouldn’t necessarily affect the larger story. Not only that, but they were street-level heroes looking to tell the same types of stories that the old Marvel Knights comic imprint did in its height. These shows were planned to be darker and would attempt to tackle deeper subject matter, which would offer audiences a new side of the MCU.

In 2015, Netflix and Marvel Television kicked it off by introducing the world to their new Matt Murdock/Daredevil with the release of Daredevil Season One. After the rights to the character had reverted to Marvel Entertainment, executives were eager to get a new adaptation of the character off the ground. Something that would ideally be far removed from the 2003 film starring Ben Affleck. It was an instant hit, with Charlie Cox being immediately accepted as the perfect Matt Murdock. Many would argue that Charlie Cox embodied the role of Matt Murdock in the same way that Robert Downey Jr. or Christopher Reeve embodied Iron Man or Superman respectively. To this day, Daredevil continues to be the most fondly remembered of the Defenders shows due to its strong writing, stylish directing, and engaging characters. The success of Daredevil led to a slight change in the plan, and a second season was fast-tracked to air after the first season of Jessica Jones. Unfortunately, due in part to Steven S. DeKnight being replaced as showrunner, the reception to the second season was more lukewarm than the first. Luckily the third season fared much better.

Unlike the other shows that would air on Netflix, Jessica Jones was originally developed for ABC. The series started its long road to air in 2010 as AKA Jessica Jones. Melissa Rosenberg had developed the show for ABC and continued with it on Netflix from 2015 to its cancellation in 2019. Back then, she had seemingly developed a more faithful adaptation of the comic series Alias than the one that made it to Netflix. Much like the Brian Michael Bendis and Michael Gaydos comic, the ABC version of the show would have Luke Cage play a large role as well as Carol Danvers’ Ms. Marvel (her promotion to Captain Marvel wouldn’t happen for two years), who would be Jessica’s best friend. Rosenberg also had long plans for the show and mentioned that Luke and Jessica’s daughter, Danielle, would show up down the line. When ABC passed on the show, Marvel Television decided to include the long-gestating series in a pitch that included Iron Fist, Luke Cage, and Daredevil to streaming services. When Netflix picked it up, the show went through heavy rewrites, most notably to remove Carol Danvers and replace her with Patsy Walker, who is known as Hellcat in the comics. This change was most likely due in part because Marvel Studios had become interested in a movie centered around Carol Danvers after she became Captain Marvel in the comics.

One of Old Spice’s most popular spokesmen, Isaiah Mustafa, began campaigning for Luke Cage due to his love of the character (there’s a proof of concept trailer online). Sadly, that campaign didn’t come to fruition and Mike Colter was cast as the title character. Colter would make his debut in Jessica Jones before headlining his own series. With three of the title characters cast, it just left Danny Rand, the Iron Fist. Eventually, the role went to Game of Thrones alum Finn Jones, but unfortunately for him, this is where the cracks began to form. Saddled with a poor showrunner and his disinterest in learning any martial arts, Iron Fist debuted with less than stellar reviews and it is currently the only Defenders series to be rated “Rotten” on Rotten Tomatoes. By the time Iron Fist rolled around, the momentum was beginning to falter. While outside of Iron Fist, the shows received generally favorable reviews, a common complaint about the pacing and length of the shows began to form. Many felt the plots of the shows could be stronger with shorter seasons and lamented how they were stretching the shows to fill thirteen episodes. Iron Fist would be the last show to air before The Defenders, with the season plot line directly leading into the upcoming mini-series.

Much like Sarah Finn, the Casting Director for Marvel Studios since Iron Man, The Defenders Casting Director, Julie Schubert was able to find the perfect actor for each of these new heroes. A major reason why the MCU was so successful is due to its casting and the Defenders Saga had to live up to that. Thankfully, Schubert was more than up for the task and successfully helped bring some fantastic new heroes, and a few of the best villains, the MCU has ever seen. Actors like Kristen Ritter as the hard-as-nails superhero/private eye Jessica Jones, Mike Coulter as the powerful Luke Cage, Jessica Henwick as Colleen Wing in Iron Fist and John Bernthal as The Punisher (Sorry Finn Jones…). A lot of the time, these shows were only as strong as their villains and Schubert was also able to cast some true powerhouse talent such as Mahershala Ali (who will soon be seen as Blade) as Cottonmouth, Vincent D’Onofrio as Wilson Fisk/Kingpin, and David Tennant as Killgrave (known as The Purple Man in the comics). To this day, Kingpin and Killgrave are considered to be some of the best villains in the MCU, able to stand shoulder to shoulder with the likes of Loki and Thanos.

The stage was set and much like The Avengers before it, The Defenders united these new fan-favorite heroes. Even though Iron Fist was not the ideal launching point for this crossover event, The Defenders was still a success. Fans had enjoyed seeing this side of the MCU and were eager to see where the journey took them… that is until they weren’t. The second “phase” of the Defenders Saga didn’t fare too well, with many having jumped off by the time The Punisher spin-off series launched in 2017 and began to steadily decline from there. While The Punisher’s viewing numbers were still good, since Frank Castle was a well-liked character, the writing was on the wall by that point. At the time, it seemed unlikely that Netflix would cancel the shows since they hadn’t yet gained the reputation they currently have. By February 2019, seemingly without any warning to the writer's teams, Netflix pull the plug. Most of the teams had prepared pitches for upcoming seasons and enough of them had earned back some goodwill with the likes of Daredevil season three and, surprisingly, Iron Fist season two, that it seemed like a sure thing they would receive a renewal order.

There are several reasons why these cancellations could have happened and it’s unlikely any true version of the story will be told anytime soon. Viewing numbers is a big deal for Netflix and they never release accurate numbers to the public, so perhaps Netflix felt it wasn’t worth the money due to the declining audience. Another potential reason is that the decision could have been a retaliation to Disney’s planned streaming service Disney+, which they were planning on producing MCU shows for. More likely, however, is that it came down to a deal. Disney was probably not interested in producing shows for an independent platform anymore and chose not to renew the contract they had already signed with Netflix. This deal could also be the reason why Netflix no longer has the shows on its platform. Why would Disney want to direct traffic away from Disney+ after all? Following the cancelation, Disney would dissolve Marvel Television and move its responsibilities to Marvel Studios, which now produces every Marvel-related TV series, including multiple high-budget MCU shows a year.

There’s been a lot of talk over the years, even while the shows were on, if these would be considered canon to the films. Outside of a few passing references to “The Incident” (The Battle of New York) and The Raft, there wasn’t much reference made to the larger MCU. Many were beginning to wonder if these characters would ever get to interact with the likes of Captain America or Iron Man. Jeph Loeb, the producer in charge of Marvel Television, certainly felt it was an inevitability that the two worlds would eventually interact but Kevin Feige was always a little deflective about the canonicity of the shows. Early interviews had Feige talking about how the characters in the show were part of the MCU “toolbox” and there were apparently discussions of including the Defenders in Avengers: Endgame, but there was never any hard stance on it. Feige probably had enough on his plate rather than to worry about what was happening with projects he wasn’t producing. Trying to weave together the evolving plot lines of these shows with the films was most likely more trouble than it was worth. But he knew that these shows and especially these characters (maybe not Danny Rand) had a great number of fans, and Kevin Feige always respects the fans. So, when the opportunity presented itself, he got to make good on his promise and included Matt Murdock and Wilson Fisk in Spider-Man: No Way Home and Hawkeye respectively. Finally putting an end to the debate once and for all by making it clear that if these characters show up, and they will, it’ll be these actors.

For the first time in Netflix’s long history, shows they produced are no longer available on their service. Luckily they were immediately moved to Disney+ so new fans can follow Kingpin from Hawkeye back to Daredevil without moving to another streaming service (something that was certainly strategic). Disney+ has a curated Marvel section that has many subheadings. Each phase has its section, for example, as well as a Marvel Legacy category for things like the Fox-produced Marvel films, and a Timeline order for anyone interested in going from Captain America: The First Avenger to Captain Marvel by way of the Agent Carter short film. Many couldn’t wait to see how the Defenders shows would fit into the timeline, only to find out that they wouldn’t be included. Instead, they have their own sub-category called The Defenders Saga. Because of the ambiguous nature of the show's place in MCU canon and the amount of time they cover, placing them anywhere in the timeline would be a difficult task to undertake. But giving them their saga, something like The Infinity Saga, makes it clear that they’re just as important, and validates their status in the canon. They weren’t produced by Marvel Studios, and it would be difficult for them to be easily incorporated into past MCU canon, but their saga definition allows audiences to put the canon debate to rest and acknowledge them as something unique and important all on their own. After all, it’s 2025 in the MCU, so it’s not like it matters anymore.

Phase Four is an exciting time for Marvel fans, including fans of the Defenders Saga. Rumors of Jessica Jones being in She-Hulk and Daredevil in Echo are all over the internet. Thanks to this, a whole new audience can find these shows and these beloved characters, because make no mistake, these characters are just as beloved as Iron Man or Captain America (well…again, maybe not Danny Rand) and fans have always wanted them to interact with the larger MCU. When Kevin Feige said, during the press tour for Spider-Man: No Way Home, that should Daredevil show up again, it would be Charlie Cox. That gave fans hope again. From Daredevil season one to Jessica Jones season three, and everything in between, the moment in time when Netflix had multiple MCU TV shows that introduced beloved heroes and villains was truly special. It’s exciting that this moment and these characters will no doubt continue to be validated as we continue this journey through Phase Four.